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Coaching Culture with Ben Herring
Coaching Culture with Ben Herring is your weekly deep-dive into the often-overlooked “softer skills” of coaching—cultural innovation, communication, empathy, leadership, dealing with stress, and motivation. Each episode features candid conversations with the world’s top international rugby coaches, who share the personal stories and intangible insights behind their winning cultures, and too their biggest failures and learnings from them. This is where X’s and O’s meet heart and soul, empowering coaches at every level to foster authentic connections, inspire their teams, and elevate their own coaching craft. If you believe that the real gold in rugby lies beyond the scoreboard, Coaching Culture is the podcast for you.
Coaching Culture with Ben Herring
Culture outlives coaches when you get these four elements right
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Welcome to Coaching Culture Reflections
Speaker 1Welcome to Coaching Culture Reflections , the midweek spark for anyone who loves leading teams and growing through that journey . I'm Ben Herring and I've been loving this side of the game for bloody ages . Each week I'll break down key components of leadership from culture building to communication , from mindset to motivation all to help you lead with more impact , heart and clarity and level up . Let's get into it , clarity and level up . Let's get into it . Hey , team , I want to talk today on this reflections piece about how you can actually breed the power within cultures , and I want to just look back on a little bit of writing I did a while ago for the book on coaching culture and I also want to just reflect on a couple of real powerful messages that I've heard over the last few podcasts and just bring some of their learnings from some of the best in the world back to how we can actually get better developing our cultures . So I read back the first and second chapters of the Coaching Culture book and I found myself finding that this was an awesome way to . When you read back on your own stuff , how you can actually learn so much from it , it's like rereading . Sometimes things that you've written actually lands way better the second time around . So that's what I'm going to dive into today . So
Culture as a Living Organism
Speaker 1what culture is is that pulse you feel when you walk into a locker room or a field and you can't put that feeling into like data or a spreadsheet or anything like that , but you can feel it and that's the lesson for us as coaches that unseen power within a team is culture . And I often kind of think of it like this that culture is a living thing , a living organism . At first like it's just like a little spark or a little twitch of DNA . But as you get the group buying into it whether that's a conversation or a standard being set it sort of snowballs . It gathers energy , momentum , it starts to feed on itself and if you can nurture and grow that , it actually grows into something you can't necessarily stop . But if you ignore it or worse , potentially poison it , it can crumple and disintegrate .
Speaker 1There's a guy called Doug Lamov who's an absolute legend for all coaches , who's an educationalist , who's got the best books out there on education and teaching and culture and coaching , and he said this quote culture is being built in the smallest moments . Culture is being built in the smallest moments and I love that . That's like those little , maybe quick corrections you do , or that sort of raised eyebrow or the way you speak to the last player on the bench . Those little moments are the ones that actually build or break culture . Player on the bench , those little moments are the ones that actually build or break culture . And so I often mention to coaches don't underestimate the everyday interactions . Those are massive , and it doesn't just apply to coaching , it applies to sort of every interaction you have with anybody , because your players are watching , absorbing and shaping the team's reality through you , and it's probably not just the team , it's probably your kids and the people you work with . It's probably a bit of all of that , and so those little things are massive .
Speaker 1The best teams I've ever worked with or seen in action have environments where players took ownership and it was no longer the coach's culture , it was their culture or , in fact , probably a better way to put , it is our culture . And I think the best example that I've seen and heard from and talked to is when I talked to Wayne Smith when he took over the Crusaders in the early days of super rugby . They were struggling , they came last and two years later they were champions . And he often puts it back to . What actually was different was the environment . He actually connected them to the community and he made them really know why they were there and made them want to be there , and he empowered his players to make them better leaders and that's flowed through and stayed on in that environment , but it's also flowed into all of his teams that he's gone through . And there's a phrase better people make better . All Blacks is something he brought to the All Blacks and that's how you know and it's lasted decades and that's how you know when your culture is real , when it outlives . The coach , like some of that stuff that he put in the Crusaders , still runs deep here .
Speaker 1So I just want to dive in now just to like talk about four aspects of culture that I think are really important , and there's lots of them , but these are the four that I've picked up over the last couple of months doing this podcast , and there's a number of great , great coaches which have talked , and I'll reference them all . Guys like Pat Lamb , joey Magalo , greg Peters , the CEO of New Zealand Rugby League , tony Brown , who's just awesome have all said stuff about the cultures that they're trying to do in their thing . So here are the four things which I'm going to go through Leadership one , communication , wellness and vision . Those things have all come up as big parts of culture and I just want to dive into those four things for you to just reflect on and have a think about . That . Number one is leadership .
Speaker 1Now , leadership isn't about
Leadership: More Voices in the Room
Speaker 1who's got the captaincy . That's not what it is . It's not a title or on a piece of paper or who sits in the middle of the team fighter . It's about the actions that person takes , and probably actions without invitation . So I want to think back to these conversations . They've all said it in their own way Leadership is when someone steps forward without being asked , when a player pulls a teammate in position or they correct the line on defense , when they maybe put an arm around a young player who's made a mistake . That's when you know leadership's alive . Doug Lamov calls it peer-led accountability . Peer-led accountability Love that and it's contagious . When one player holds the group to a standard , the group rises because the expectation shifts from coach to player , to player to player , and that's super powerful .
Speaker 1Pat Lamb spoke about a leadership as desire . He said the best teams are the ones where people want to be there . And when players want to be there . Leadership spreads like wildfire . It's easier . Everything's that dry wood which can just light up . It's no longer about one or two voices , it's about a room full of them , and I love that . I guess to caveat that , though , it's always worthwhile noting that leadership is fragile . If players feel it's not safe to speak , they won't , and if they think the coach has the final word , then they'll stay quiet .
Speaker 1Greg Peters , the CEO of New Zealand Rugby League , said culture is something you can feel , and I'm big on this because it's hard to measure sometimes . It's just a feeling , gut feeling , and it includes the presence or possibly the absence of leadership across a group . If a room feels heavy or closed or dominated , then the chance for shared leadership disappears , and I think that's a really important thing . When you're talking about that culture , about those feelings when you walk in a room , is massive . You can actually understand what that is . Like Joy Mongalo's point probably one of the best leadership coaches well , rugby coaches , who are leadership coaches as well that I've ever heard talk , and he talked about the context , and he said leadership without context is empty . He talked about if a player is stepping up without truly understanding why it's noise , not leadership , and I think we've all been through those times where you hear some people stand up and say something you just go , mate , that's trite , you're just saying what we want to hear or you're just saying those cliches . So you've got to have the context , got to understand that context , and I think that's a really powerful point .
Speaker 1Tony Brown , the legend that is Tony Brown , gave us another one . He talked about the fizz . Tony Brown , the legend that is Tony Brown , gave us another one . He talked about the fizz and he said it's not high performance that makes teams great , it's the fizz , and that is the passion or the energy players bring . And leadership he referred to at its best is what protects that fizz , it's what keeps the energy alive when everything else is potentially against you . So it's that energy and the teams that he's been in . I've seen firsthand how he keeps that fizz alive .
Speaker 1And so here's the challenge for us as coaches is these questions Are we creating an environment where players feel safe enough to lead ? Are we stepping back enough to give them space ? And are we modeling the behaviors we want them to ? Because we are like mirrors . Essentially , if we lead with something like panic , the team will panic . If we lead with calm , they'll be calm . If we lead with fizz , they'll probably be full of fizz as well , and I love that . So I guess my takeaway is this from the leadership aspect is the strength of your leadership isn't measured by how loud your voice is . It's measured by how many other voices are heard in the room . I think it's a lovely little statement how many other voices are heard ? The more that's speaking , you know , the more leadership's coming through . I think that's really cool .
Speaker 1The second thing that I've heard a lot of and I just want to review is communication . Now , communication is a buzzword that coaches all over the world say , probably something like this my players just don't communicate enough , they don't talk . They're not all that stuff , but it's a skill like any other . We've got to help them practicing . Sam Vestey talked about building comms into off-field practice . So getting the players and this is in a professional environment , of course talking more , giving little plans and ideas to get them talking to each other as much as possible , to practice getting them up presenting about anything , is just improving their communications .
Speaker 1It's one of those words I know we all nod as coaches , but we probably underestimate . You know
Communication: Beyond Just Words
Speaker 1how valuable it is , so let me just make this point it's not just the words , but it's the way they land . You know , like this , this tone , this timing there's , even the way you walk into a room communicates just as loudly as as anything else you do . So they , they feel , players feel they don't just listen , they to what you say , they kind of feel it . And your body language often gives you away along before . So the the idea that we are mirroring what we want to see . So if you're calm , the group's calm , that kind of thing . You know the one .
Speaker 1So I think back to Joey Mongalo on the podcast . He said that context thing Communication without context is just noise as well . And he'd also talked about the conviction combined with the context . And he said if you get those two right , we go good , instead of just firing off any old the same cliched phrases . You know , come on , work harder , pick it up , execute those things . Unless it lands with meaning , it's wasted . And joey is not the only one . Pat Lamb often speaks about love and honesty , about how the toughest feedback , which is a massive part of comms , has to be delivered with care . So the player knows it's for their growth , not just for your ego as a coach . So that's communication too , the intent behind the words , and I was trying to just I'm thinking about how you can get better at this yourself , how you as a coach can get better , and one of the ways which I've really enjoyed is just recording myself coaching , or speaking for that matter .
Speaker 1Did a lot of public speaking a number of years back and always reviewed my speeches , just listened , watch body language , watch where I walk to , watch my tics and what I did , and watching it back , you realize how often your body language is saying something either you didn't intend to or potentially going . You know a different way . Sometimes your tone can be different . It can sound , I don't know , dismissive , but when I thought about when I give feedback and when I heard myself giving feedback to players , I could step back and listen to myself and I thought about things like did that lift the player up or was that potentially shutting them down ? And sometimes that's uncomfortable , but it's gold . Doug Lamov , the legend calls like , just says talks about practicing what you preach , and that's the oldest saying in the book .
Speaker 1But if we expect players to review themselves for their performances , why wouldn't we do the same ? That's a little bit of self-awareness and just by giving it a crack you'll actually be better , just because you're going for it . So communication isn't just about words , it's about the connection , how it's all landing . You're not just there to instruct , you're actually there to inspire , and reviewing yourself is important .
Speaker 1So the third thing for helping build these cultures that I've identified over the last couple of months of podcasting is this well-being piece , and most coaches talk about that . Some people call it almost psychological safety , but the well-being of the group as well , and it's one of those things , well-being , that can kind of sound like it's soft , that's an old school thinking . Often you sort of think , oh , we'll think about that after the rugby . But it's actually like cultural oxygen , because if you don't have that wellbeing piece , without it , your performance can suffocate , really can . When I look around at environments that thrive , it's not just about the fittest , strongest , all that stuff . It's also about the energy , presence and even the mood of the group , and players are turning up because they want to be there , as Pat Lamb said , or are they becoming there because they feel like they have to ? And so that question can tell you a little bit around the well-being and environment better than sort of stats reports on your environment .
Wellbeing: The Cultural Oxygen
Speaker 1Tony Brown , again , that fizz and that passion , and that's the bit that he thinks is really good and you know it's off .
Speaker 1Greg Peters talked about you know , culture is something you can feel . It's part of the feeling when people are well , not just physically but emotionally and spiritually as well , and he referenced the Polynesian culture just as an example that for them , generally speaking , well-being isn't separate from performance . It's part of it . Respect , family , community that all feeds that sense of belonging , that environmental piece , the cultural piece . When players feel like they belong , they feel well in themselves and they give more of themselves .
Speaker 1Pat Lamb comes back to that phrase of love . He talks about love as sacrificing for someone else's benefit . That's well-being in action , really , when you're prepared to do it , when players know that the guy next to them cares . It's not just about the game but it's about them as a person and that's awesome . I love it . So they're massive .
Speaker 1So here's a couple of takeaways for that aspect , for that wellbeing piece is check the vibe daily , not just attendance , taking a roll , marking who's there , but the energy , who's flat , who's buzzing A great phrase . That , I think , is a real deep diving one which I love . I just do it automatically now as I chuck in . How's your soul today ? It's a deep question . If you deliver that with the right context , with the right amount of humor , it can actually dive quite deep and you'll often get answers that sometimes people will say , oh , it's okay , and then you get a good vibe check and I love and I think it's a good one to connect to . I've actually had some people refer to me having said that to them when they were young men coming up through the ranks of thing , and when I asked that question and when things weren't right , it really resonated .
Speaker 1I think it's also important with the well-being is just to make sure that you're . When you are pushing players hard which is the particularly the case in like pro coaching or when you get to certain levels , you still gotta let them know why it matters and that you've got their back . I think that's a really important thing . So you push hard when it's time to push hard and they understand why you're doing it , but when it's not time , you step back . I think that's really important . They know that why and that you ask with care . We're not going to hide from it . You've got to push hard in the sport . But at the same time , like these days , you've got to let people know why it matters and give them that , why the last bit for wellbeing to look for is that belonging piece . When players laugh together , stay behind , for example , after training , or help each other when they're going through shit , that's a sign your well-being is really feeding the culture . So look out for those things and take note of them and see who's doing them . That's massive .
Speaker 1Now , number four on this cultural piece is the vision . Now , when I think about the best environments of being part of , there's always been that sort of clarity , not just about how you play , but why you play and what you're playing for . And here's the thing I suppose that if your players can't repeat that vision back to you in their own words , then it's not in , it's just a slogan , slogan , and I've certainly been guilty of not driving things continually as hard as I could have , but when I have got it right , when it's lit me up as much as anybody else and I've gone through with it for entire seasons , my goodness , it can really land really well . And I think . I think it's amazing . Um , that vision and g and Greg Peters talks about this your vision is what shapes the feeling , the culture . If your vision's clear , if it's in the way the players walk into the change room , it's the way they can hear it when they
Vision: The Heartbeat of Your Team
Speaker 1talk to staff , the way they connect with the wider community , it's a heartbeat of a team . It's not just words on a wall , it's a heartbeat and those are massive . And so you've got vision .
Speaker 1Now I go back to Joey Mongalo , that context piece . It's not just about the other three things I've mentioned , that vision is a context too . Without context it's a noise . If your vision doesn't make sense to your players' lives , if it doesn't connect them to where they come from , who they are or what they value , it doesn't make sense to your players' lives . If it doesn't connect them to where they come from , who they are or what they value , it doesn't stick . Vision has to meet people where they are .
Speaker 1So I've been through a lot of teams where they've just seen what other people are doing , like let's go . Let's take a basketball vision , like we're going for the three-peat , just like the Chicago Bulls or the LA Lakers done . There's been a million teams that do that and if it sticks , it sticks . If it's appropriate and it's connected , it's good , but if you're just doing it because you're seeing another team think , oh , that's a good vision to have to go for , then it doesn't necessarily land . You can't understand why we're doing this , why that's the vision . I think it's amazing . I read a book years ago by Viktor Frankl the fellow that survived Auschwitz , a psychologist and he essentially tested himself on having to have a purpose to get through such an ordeal like that , and he said quote he who has a why to live can bear almost any hell . He who has a why to live can bear almost any hell . Now , that's kind of that vision piece .
Speaker 1When your players know why they're there , they carry the weight of the grind , the losses , even the failures , because they know the why behind it . So here's my takeaways for coaches Test your vision , ask players to describe it . If they can't simplify it , make it clear and make it part of their language . And that can be with the on-field stuff you do . It can be how you talk every day . It can be just some buzzwords that get repeated all the time . And that's the next bit You've got to reinforce daily . Don't wait for the start of the season . Vision or needs to show up all the time , meetings , reviews and the way you praise effort , um , and the other time is it's not just set at the start , it's got to be continued like throughout . Now . That's the piece which is probably hard to keep driving it when stress comes on .
Speaker 1To go back to why it's so important , there's a lovely coach , uh , I interview in this podcast , called Franz Luder , good friend of mine . Franz Luderke coached the Bulls , now is coaching very successfully in Japan and he has a blueprint where he always circles back to anything that he said he does on a fortnightly basis . He has his fortnightly , his monthly , his yearly and just goes back to what he said two weeks ago , what he said four weeks ago , and he talks to the coaches in a professional environment every Monday . Here's what we said at the start of the year . Are we doing this every day ?
Speaker 1And I just love that kind of cyclic nature of that , coming back to stuff , not just letting it slide , which is easy to do , but just having those little checklists . And sometimes you have to be kind of a detailed coach and have your structures , which isn't everyone . I myself don't always like that when it's around stuff I'm passionate about . Though it's , I love it and I think it's awesome . So your vision is massive because it just binds people to a cause and when your vision is alive , it just it does more than guide performance . It actually leaves something massive behind . So that is my four key points for today . People , I hope they've sparked something in you and they are why leadership , communication , wellness and vision are really strong parts of a really good culture . So here's how I want to sum up today .
Speaker 1So takeaways from coaches listening is these little things like make sure you define your culture in simple terms , not just a whole paragraph , and get players to be able to talk it back to you so they can bang it back to you really quickly , really easily . That's important . I reckon it's like the elevator test they say in business If you pitch , business , if you pitch , if you can say it to someone in an elevator before it gets to the next stop and they can say it back to you , you're away . I think the other thing of a culture around this the four points I've talked about is when you see it , when you catch it being done at the time , you need to praise it and get on it and just keep reinforcing
Creating a Legacy That Outlives You
Speaker 1the behaviors you want to see . Likewise , you need to correct it when you don't . But there's always real value in praising it more than you're correcting it , because the praise is sort of more powerful psychologically when you see someone doing something well , you want to replicate it .
Speaker 1I think the last point I want you to take away around developing cultures is the ability to step back . The reason I say this is because I love trying to develop culture and often I charge in there . But I've learned over time you have to do an element of that . You have to be the culture starter at times and you have to spark something . You have to believe in it and do it yourself . But after a while it's important that you do just step back . You almost sow the seeds and let it grow itself , and I guess the ultimate test of culture is when it keeps working when you're not in the room , and that's what Wayne Smith has done with the Crusaders . The legacy he left is continued 20 years later . That is still an environment , a culture , where people love being there . They'll have been part of that group . They work harder for each other , they care . The communication's outstanding , the wellbeing's awesome . The vision of that place is just top draw and that's a testament to what you've done and a little spark of influence that you've left .
Speaker 1So culture isn't an idea written in a handbook . It's the heartbeat of your team and when you get it right , it carries people forward in their lives not just in your rugby team or any team , and that's coaching . You're not just shaping line outs or defensive patterns or you know that kind of stuff . You're actually shaping how people think , behave and lead long after the whistle , and I love that . That's why I coach like the x's and o's uh , I dove into when I was younger , but now I'm finding the reward is if the effect you can have on people and their lives going forward and honestly , that may be the greatest measure of success really not the trophies on the shelves , but that unseen legacy you leave behind wherever you are , a culture that outlives you , that keeps breathing through the players and the staff and the committee long after you've stepped away .
Speaker 1Coaches , I hope there's a little bit of resonation there and if you do have anything , reach out to me . Linkedin's probably the best one , but drop me a note on the show notes here and ask me if you've got something around culture specific to you . Give it a bit of context and ask me the question . I'd love to be a part of that little bit of connection between myself and yourself . Until next week , until next Sunday , we've got the next guest coming out . Stay well , look after the soul .