How Community Rugby Sustains Elite Performance, and How You can See it

Elite rugby loves to talk about high performance, but the uncomfortable question is simpler: what happens when the clubs empty out? We dig into the community game and why participation is the true performance metric that quietly decides a nation’s future. With a powerful snippet from David Nusafora, we unpack the idea that high performance can’t operate in isolation and that the relationship between performance and participation has to stay healthy for both sides to win.

From there, we head to a place where rugby is on a genuine upward tick: Argentina. Felipe Contempomi shares what he’s seeing on the ground, including club numbers that sound almost unreal compared to the shrinking training squads many of us recognize. We explore the cultural ingredients behind that growth: staying with the same club from a young age, building deep friendships, and creating a sense of belonging where you still contribute even when you’re not playing.

We also spotlight a rugby tour to Argentina organized by Gullivers, lined up with the Wallabies vs Argentina Tests (Aug 27 to Sep 6), with Tony Shaw describing the joy of touring, the camaraderie, and what it feels like to watch rugby in intimate stadiums while soaking up the food, wine, and local club culture in places like Salta and Mendoza.

If grassroots rugby matters to you, hit subscribe, share this with a coach or club leader, and leave a review so more people find the conversation.

For all your rugby and sports gear needs Check out Silverfern here: https://silverfernsport.com/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=coaching-culture

Gullivers travel Tour to Argentina
Go to Argentina with the Wallabys and Gullivers travel. Led by ex Wallaby captain David Shaw

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

David On Participation Fuel

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Welcome to the Coaching Culture Podcasts. This is the Midweek Reflection. Today we are talking about our community game. This week on the Sunday special, we had David Nusafora on, the architect of Ireland's Rise. And he talked about something in the show, which is probably the top of a lot of people's minds, is that the importance of the community game, the amateur roots of this game. He talked about how that impacts the strength of the community game, impacts the high performance game at the very top echelon. And how we've got to maintain the numbers and the growth in that community game in order for this game to survive and grow stronger and stronger at the high performance level. So here he is, just a little snippet from David. And later in this episode today, I want to just talk about this cultural piece, about some other place in the world where rugby's actually on a massive upward tick. And I'll get to that. But first, here's David Nusafour in his own words.

Ireland’s Rise Through Alignment

SPEAKER_00 1:57

People need to understand that high performance can't operate in isolation. I think too many places, unions around the world, don't understand that. High performance components of the game need to be in sync and have a really good working relationship with the community game. Like, if you let one suffer, then, you know, in the case of the community game of rugby, if you don't pay the due attention to that, if high performance doesn't work to be in sync with the community game, then you're going to have a problem. Because high performance is reliant on participation. Participation has to stay healthy. So you have to find ways that that interface between performance and participation, you have to try and make it as healthy as you can so that both sides benefit. And I'm not sure that that happens consistently around the world in rugby because performance will only exist or will only get better the healthier participation is. So you ought to help the game grow, you've got to keep it in a good shape.

Argentina’s Club Boom Explained

Felipe On Keeping Clubs Amateur

SPEAKER_02 3:17

I think those are really powerful words coming from David, just because he is a guy that has not only talks the theory about this stuff, but it's actually been invested in the growth of a whole country's rugby. Uh and what he did with Ireland in helping grow that from, in his own words, a team that came from ninth or tenth in the world to number one in the world. And his mentality was we've got to grow the base as well, got to align these things, got to make the community game stronger, and that'll make the high performance game stronger. I think it's just an awesome to hear that from the leaders in the game. And one of the places in the world, which I'm pretty privileged to have access to, is what's happening in Argentina. And we had Felipe Contepome talk on the Coaching Culture podcast a couple of weeks ago, and he talked about uh something that's happening in Argentina which is different from the rest of the world. Club rugby is on a massive boom in Argentina. And he and he talks his own club, has 260 players registered to play. And it's phenomenal sort of numbers where in some parts of the world, and I and I refer to New Zealand, which is my homeland, uh, clubs are closing and shutting down because they just can't get the numbers to sustain themselves. But in Argentina, there's something else happening. The culture of that place is very different. The club rugby setup is set in amateur roots, and you play all the way through. And Felipe actually talked about off-air, not in the interview, but he talked about how they are a long way behind the professional world. They started a lot later. They're only coming into professionalism now, really, like full-blown professionalism. And as such, the amateur game is still strong and the numbers are coming through really amazing. And as a cultural place anyway, Argentina's phenomenal. But what they're doing with the culture of their rugby clubs is something special as well. So here's a little bit of insight, just a wee snippet from Felipe Contempomi about his take on how Argentina's rugby club culture is going. Like club rugby is dead. Like teams can't get teams together.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

It's it's unreal. I know, I know because Kenny's coaching his club rugby, and he told me the other day, like we had 16 players like for training, and you know, the local, and I said, Whoa, we have 260. So crazy for first division, you know, and I'm trying to tell the administration because here in Argentina, they they are doing all the time the club competition, they're trying to go to do it more professional, going more and harder and harder. And and I said, but like careful because the more you go, you do it aspirational. People just get there, they leave, they quit, they it's like it's a tough one. What one good thing for us is as I said, is the the system we have here. It's in in England, uh, New Zealand, Ireland, and it's clay you have like school rugby is very strong. So in the in the youth uh years, you play for your school, and then if you don't make the jump, you leave. While here you're still you're in the club, even in youth. You you start from six-year-old till so that's where we are lucky because it's not that they leave the some guys, they understand they are not. It's not that when you finish school you need to go and find a club. You you come already playing with your same guys for 10 years. So they become your friends, and sometimes that friendship makes the guy come into the club, even if he's not playing, stay there, you know, make the barbecue, do something for the club.

Argentina Tour And Test Match Hook

Tony Shaw On Touring Culture

SPEAKER_02 7:17

So cool to hear from Flea Contopomy around that, because when you go to Argentina, you can actually feel that kind of feel on the in the club rugby scene. And it just it's so enriching, it's so uh rewarding to to be that, especially when you haven't had it for a long time, because in other parts of the world that's just not that's just not the same. In any case, I'd like to celebrate now uh a tour that's going on to Argentina around this cultural aspect of stuff, having really good relationships with the Gulliver's group who organise tours, they are actually running uh a tour to Argentina to experience this culture, and it's in line with the two Wallabies versus Argentina tests that are happening 27th of August, the 6th of September. They're taking a small group, which are pretty much all sold out, to there, and they're taking it with Tony Shure, the ex-wallabies captain, who's leading this real cultural expedition to such a wonderful, rich place where they go to these communities, these club rugby cultures, as well as the high performance. They get that connection between both the community amateur roots and the high-end stuff, they get it all, along with a truckload of Mendoza wine and all sorts of awesome meats and Argentinian cultural festivities. So I'd like now to just yeah, really big up this cool tour that they're doing. And I just want to reflect on what Tony said about it uh in a a couple of weeks ago when he talked about his joy of touring. So here he is, Tony Shaw, ex-Wallaby's captain, on the beauty of touring, the cultural sensation, which is Argentina.

Takeaways For Growing The Base

SPEAKER_03 8:47

I was president of Rugby Australia, so I went there. It's a fabulous country, and Gullivers have got this um tour on, and and they're experts at organizing tours and structuring them uh well. So it's 11 or 12 days away in Argentina to watch two tests in Psalter and Mendoza. So it's in the country. We're going to be a Buenos Aires and spending some time there, but it's just great to be out in the country areas because it's fabulous country, and um, you know, you you you've you know, it's and the meat and the and the but the whole culture of the place, the meat and white the food and the and the red white malback, you know, um is the is the is the popular red. Um so it's it's stunning. So they're doing a great trip. It's electric, absolutely electric. And then um the stadiums we're playing in, uh one's the 20,000 stadium, one's a 40,000 stadium, but they're soccer stadiums. Um, you know, we're not in the big impersonal, you know, 50,000, 60,000, you know, capacity stadium. These are earthy, uh they're former soccer stadiums, but uh they'll be great. You've close to the action, you know, everyone will be dressed up. Half the fun is the different people that go, you know, some people guys go on their own, some are couples, different age groups. Um, you know, we had two on the on the French trip, um, two guys and their 20, 21-year-old sons with them. Um, but you form a real camaraderie with the team. We do a lot together. There's six lunches or dinners um as part of the package. Um, so we'll we'll have events, we'll have you know, dress-ups and all sorts of things. That's all, but it'll be a lot of fun. It'll be a lot of fun.

Tour Dates And How To Join

Closing Reflection

SPEAKER_02 10:29

We talked about at the start of the show that importance of the community level stuff, the grassroots, the amateur stuff, which feeds the high performance. And nowhere is probably better than that amateur stuff that's happening in Argentina. The culture that's there is actually making rugby boom, and we can take so much away from what's happening there and the cultural richness of that place. So if you want to go experience that, please jump on that tour. It is a great one, and I love bigging up stuff which does wonders for the culture of this sport and all sports and teams, and I love it. So from the 27th of August to the 6th of September, this tour with Gullivers, you can find all you need to know about it in the show notes, and there's still a couple of places left, which is why I'm loving speaking about it today on today's show, because I love promoting things here that are enriching our culture as a rugby community. Jump on that to Argentina with Tony Shaw. Until next time, stay well.